Amount of M/F content compared to F/F

[wrestling_pi]

Being a strict F/F fan, I always found it odd there was more M/F than F/F.  I would have thought it would be roughly 50/50, but I think we can all agree there is far more of a market it seems for M/F.  For me personally I don't mind M/F, but if I'm going to watch a wrestling match, I'd rather watch two good looking girls go at it... plus it seems more "fair" even if a squash match.  My only thought to F/M was that people watching it could imagine themselves being the M.  As far as the content - I always felt it's probably much easier to produce as well, far cheaper - and less worry about schedule.

[RBAP]

If you're in it for the sexual aspects of wrestling (two bodies in close contact, one eventually vanquishing the other), you'll likely prefer FF (as long as you're heterossexual, of course).
If, rather, you enjoy the sexual aspects of domination/submission of a male by a female (female superiority, physical humiliation) you'll probably prefer FM.
The market for femdom is bigger, and producers respond to that. It is a question of distribution of tastes across the population, no value judgement applies.
Personally, I only enjoy FF, but often buy and share FM in order to better contribute to the Forum, and/or if I'm particularly attracted by a specific female model (e.g. Electra, Wenona, Veve, Rapture...)

[Ronald_Frump]

F/M is more popular. I can only assume this is due to the majority of fans preferring seeing a proxy of themselves engaged in a voluntarily-submissive scenario - because it certainly isn't a realistic one. That approach doesn't work for me: I'll always view any male as a rival to myself and the action as fake/scripted, which disempowers the female, IMO. ie. the guy's enjoying it, she's playing his game.

As a confirmed F/F fan, I prefer the more real domination of an alpha-female over a beta. If the aggressor has lesbian intentions over a straight submissive, all the better - I just don't dig any strap-on/dildo action: that's all about glorifying the male genitals. I'll take forced facesitting/smother over that shit any day, thanks.

The sad thing is that I believe F/F is becoming watered-down. Whether or not this is due to more girls using jiu jitsu and the risk of injury, I can't say, but the intensity and quick release of submission holds pales in comparison to yesteryear. Give me Fightingstyle, early LWS, Belgian Fighting Women, or early DWW over anything available today.

[femfightwatcher]

Here's what I find interesting.  It seems every action movie these days has a catfight (F vs. F), and even if the fight comprises one minute of 90 in the film, you can be sure it will appear prominently in the brief preview trailer.  So lots of men must enjoy hot girls fighting at some level; then again lots of men enjoy hot girls kissing each other, hot girls trying on shoes, and hot girls washing cars.  When it comes to the level of fixation that justifies buying fetish videos, the mixed wrestling fans have us beat, not to mention their willingness to pay for sessions.

Like Stewie I miss the F vs. F oldies, except Academy (ACA and AX), CW-VSL and Joan Wise were my favorites.  The market is fragmenting (as one would expect with the internet) into niches, and the two that appear to be growing are one simulating real street fights and another athletic competition (tending to be in workout clothes).  What's gone by the wayside is explicitly erotic wrestling, where the point is the body to body contact itself, rather than clever grappling technique or vicious hair pulling or slapping.  Ironically, just as technical video quality is approaching perfection, the new content is less to my liking.  What's very much to my liking is the fount of torrid newer girls like Jess, Misty Anderson and Natalia.  Now if only there were producer (like the late Academy Bruce) who'd entertain fan suggestions on how to make the best use of such amazing talent.

[RBAP]

The sad thing is that I believe F/F is becoming watered-down. Whether or not this is due to more girls using jiu jitsu and the risk of injury, I can't say, but the intensity and quick release of submission holds pales in comparison to yesteryear. Give me Fightingstyle, early LWS, Belgian Fighting Women, or early DWW over anything available today.

Totally agree. Technique may be better today but nothing approaches the grinding intensity of some old matches - Denise (Sasha) vs Robin and the early APL matches involving Ana, Kristie, and Tina come to mind.
The deal with strap-ons/dildos/vibrators/etc, that I'll never get...

[Ronald_Frump]

I definitely think F/M is easier to produce and F/M fans are easier to please. The exception might be Club-Q, but their ability to market their product in the West is virtually non-existent and Western producers are unable, or unwilling to go down that route. Maybe the newer fans are quite happy to part with their $$$ on the light, almost "vanilla" fetish wrestling which pervades the current market, but I'd like to think us older fans are more discerning.

In recent years, femwin has been my premier choice for F/F vids. However, as I alluded to above, I'm increasingly finding them bland. A good example would be the latest clip featuring Cheyenne and Daisy - both great grapplers. Once again, as soon as a submission hold is applied, a quick tap ends the action. See, the problem with that is this: what I pay to see is one girl at the mercy of the other and the dom taking pleasure in making the moment last.

In the old-skool days many of the girls were in (real) tears and screaming out whilst still in a submission hold and they'd sometimes spend minutes trying to escape. Luzia, Nadege, Karine, Xana, Nadia, Gia.....they were what I call real warriors. Non of this "quick tap, we're all friends again, time for tea and giggles"....ad infinitum.

The other thing that kills it is the videography. Nothing worse than your favorite sub being applied and the camera angle not capturing the expression of humiliation and defeat in the loser's face. Though in fairness to them, they wouldn't have time to get in position before the cycle of "tap-release".

TBH, I believe the days of those killer-girls has gone for good, never to return.

[Keyboard21]

The sad thing is that I believe F/F is becoming watered-down. Whether or not this is due to more girls using jiu jitsu and the risk of injury, I can't say, but the intensity and quick release of submission holds pales in comparison to yesteryear. Give me Fightingstyle, early LWS, Belgian Fighting Women, or early DWW over anything available today.

As you know I been saying this for a long while.  I really dislike most new stuff.  The quick taps and no skill holds.

I been thinking it was just me.  Guess not.

[wrestling_pi]

In the old-skool days many of the girls were in (real) tears and screaming out whilst still in a submission hold and they'd sometimes spend minutes trying to escape. Luzia, Nadege, Karine, Xana, Nadia, Gia.....they were what I call real warriors. Non of this "quick tap, we're all friends again, time for tea and giggles"....ad infinitum.

The other thing that kills it is the videography. Nothing worse than your favorite sub being applied and the camera angle not capturing the expression of humiliation and defeat in the loser's face. Though in fairness to them, they wouldn't have time to get in position before the cycle of "tap-release".

This touches on 2 things.
I'm not much of a competitive fan for some of the reasons you suggest... the quick taps, etc.... but the "friendly competition" thing is the biggest turn off.  The shake hands giggle walk away endings kill it.  Just give me a victory pose or something finite.  I also agree on submission holds - stay in them longer.

On Videography I absolutely hate this - but I think they don't have much choice trying to film something not cheoreographed where when a submission hold does happen, they don't have time to film what they need to film.  This happens in the fantasy world though too - I hate to see a facesit where the camera catches the legs of the girl being facesat intsead of moving around to see her head and face under her opponents butt... it's just a common sense place to video from - and they sometimes miss it... and always miss it if it's in a semi-competitive fight.

[QZR1712]

I would have guessed F/F was more popular.  It seems like producers like DWW and Fighting Dolls are always saying that the F/M matches don't sell.  Perhaps that is just a different market though.  I wonder if people generally tend to gravitate towards the videos they first watched when getting into the fetish. 

This is a broad topic, but one thing I think is missing from a lot of videos is a story arc.  I'm not talking about some silly Scissor Vixens-esque scenario where the guy is ignoring the girl because he wants to watch the latest GoT episode and then the entire video is her scissoring him in the same 7 positions that are in every single video they make.  I mean that what made some of these older videos so enjoyable to watch was that there was a progression over the course of the video culminating in an ending.  Joan Wise was a great example of this for both F/F and M/F videos.  Typically, the competitors both started out with lots of confidence.  Gradually one wrestler pulled away and started dominating.  The loser would try to resist and maintain dignity, but inevitably would end up humbled and humiliated.  The ending would typically involve some final icing on the cake humiliation, e.g., forced crotch/breast worship, being made to crawl around and act like an animal, or even just to verbally admit their inferiority (which was often the most embarrassing of all).  It seems like a simple formula, but there's nobody really doing it today. 

Intensity can also be its own story arc.  DWW was perfect producing those sorts of videos.  At the end of the day, it seemed as though the girls liked each other, but when they were on the mats, they were all business, excited to score a submission, disappointed to have to tap.  Each match was its own little story (and because it was real, rather than fantasy, some stories were better than others).  In contrast, today's videos, as people have pointed out, are overly-friendly affairs with a lot of repetitive action and cuts after submissions.  To me the best part of any match, mixed or F/F, is the dynamic between the two competitors.  When the action stops the instant someone taps and the camera cuts, a lot of the best opportunities for showing the dynamic of the match and the psychology of the wrestlers are lost.  It is no surprise then that the final product is less exciting.

[lianqisi]

in my country M/f is more popular
most of chinese are conditioned to man beat women easy before I know the western wrestling videos I also agree women can not beat
man.
BUT now I think female wrestler can beat the man who do not know wrestling skills

[crushed4life]

I think the more competitive-oriented a company's videos are, the larger percentage of their videos are FvsF, those are easier to match up and produce. Companies like DWW and Judell Dulong had at most 1/4 of their videos as mixed. Scissorvixens and sites like them are virtually all MvF, all they need is a warm male body and it's on. Fighting Dolls has stopped making mixed fights and I doubt they'll make any more unless specifically sponsored. And most of those probably won't be competitive, but appealing to the sponsors specifically peculiar fetish. I remember G.R. of DWW writing that he would have preferred to do exclusively FvF videos since they sold so much better, but there was enough of a demand for the mixed matches that he wanted to oblige those fans.

[ryandev]

F/M is more popular. I can only assume this is due to the majority of fans preferring seeing a proxy of themselves engaged in a voluntarily-submissive scenario - because it certainly isn't a realistic one. That approach doesn't work for me: I'll always view any male as a rival to myself and the action as fake/scripted, which disempowers the female, IMO. ie. the guy's enjoying it, she's playing his game.

As a confirmed F/F fan, I prefer the more real domination of an alpha-female over a beta. If the aggressor has lesbian intentions over a straight submissive, all the better - I just don't dig any strap-on/dildo action: that's all about glorifying the male genitals. I'll take forced facesitting/smother over that shit any day, thanks.

The sad thing is that I believe F/F is becoming watered-down. Whether or not this is due to more girls using jiu jitsu and the risk of injury, I can't say, but the intensity and quick release of submission holds pales in comparison to yesteryear. Give me Fightingstyle, early LWS, Belgian Fighting Women, or early DWW over anything available today.

F/M fights are realistic if they're around the same weight range.  Problem is only about 5% of men are under 130 lbs (http://halls.md/chart/MenWeightWhite.gif) so it's hard to find guys for videos.  I know the owners of grapplinggirls/fighting-dolls and both have problems finding guys under 140 lbs that are willing to wrestle against the girls (and once they do find a guy, the guy will often lose, sometimes vomiting after the match because of also being in bad shape, and so not want to do it again). 

Fighting-dolls seems to have the best FvF fights.  They're basically a wrestling league there (with many of the girls having hundreds of matches now).  Is there anything that compares to them?