Punishment Rounds?

[DiabloNYC]

I also posted this to my yahoogroup, but as I was composing it, I thought a discussion forum might be an even better place to post:

In the video section, I posted the "Punishment Round" from the Wrestling vs Striking match of VeVe vs Orlandoe from last summer.

Do you like the idea of "punishment rounds" for the loser in competitive wrestling bouts or physical contests?  Is a punishment fun "just desserts" for the loser.... or does rubbing salt in the wounds seem a bit too much?  Is it a fun thing to see, or does it seem unsporting?

Stewie referred to the VeVe/Orlandoe Punishment Round above as "almost gladiatorial," and indeed, a Punishment Round does remind me of a gladiator looking to the crowd for opinions on what to do with his defeated opponent.

VeVe and Orlandoe have an on-going one-upmanship rivalry, so I can easily see them engaging in contests with potential punishment rounds.  But what about contestants who don't know each other as well?  Would F v F punishment rounds result in too much bad blood?  Is a punishment round better suited for a mixed match (perhaps it is even more expected?)?

I know Ultimate Surrender has their own sort of Punishment Round, but that seems a little different than a Punishment resulting after a very fierce, proud, competitive athletic contest.  The more competitive and athletic, the more potential for a punishment to upset the sporting nature of an encounter. 

What do you think?  Any opinions on F v F punishments following competitive bouts?  Thoughts on women who know each other fighting as opposed to women who are meeting for the first time?

[Ronald_Frump]

I've got a lot to say about this, but I'll lay-off for the time being, so others can give unbiased opinions.

Great subject-matter for a discussion topic, Diablo..... 

[Matey]

I think it's valid and deserved if the outcome of the competitive bout is decisive, ie. 5:1.

If it's a really close battle (like 3:2), I don't think the 'loser' has nothing to be ashamed of as it could go either way and the punishment round in such case is undeserved.

Will the punishment round damage the loser girl's reputation if it was well-know popular wrestler with a large base of fans? Probably not, since the 'damage' was already done when she lost the competitive bout 

[RBAP]

Punishments, KOs, and victory poses are SEXY.

[QZR1712]

Personally I like to watch the punishment rounds.  I remember I saw an old video once with Malibu vs. Kristie where there was a punishment round and it was really hot.  I guess I fall more into the camp of the victor earned it, and now she's getting what she deserves.  It's like the loser knew what she was getting into, and maybe the humiliation of the punishment round will motivate her to fight harder and spur her on to victory next time.

[Ronald_Frump]

Do you like the idea of "punishment rounds" for the loser in competitive wrestling bouts or physical contests?  Is a punishment fun "just desserts" for the loser.... or does rubbing salt in the wounds seem a bit too much?  Is it a fun thing to see, or does it seem unsporting?

Yes to all questions......and that empowers the victor, physically, psychologically and sexually.

VeVe and Orlandoe have an on-going one-upmanship rivalry, so I can easily see them engaging in contests with potential punishment rounds.  But what about contestants who don't know each other as well?  Would F v F punishment rounds result in too much bad blood? 

Ongoing rivalry can certainly add to the mix. However, a beatdown amongst strangers can be just as riveting, providing the scenario is believable. IMHO bad-blood is emotive and helps make a passionate performance credible.

Is a punishment round better suited for a mixed match (perhaps it is even more expected?)?

No. Female punishment of a male can never be as hot as girl/girl action, because on some level, the guy is having his desires fulfilled. Overtly lesbian encounters also fall into this category. However, straight-girl domination is all about superiority and the humiliation of the loser is more intense, because it is unwanted. This can be equally intense if the victor alone has lesbian tendencies, making the empowerment work sexually as well as in the context of a struggle for social hierarchy/alpha-female breeding rights (which is the stressor for female combat in nature).

I know Ultimate Surrender has their own sort of Punishment Round, but that seems a little different than a Punishment resulting after a very fierce, proud, competitive athletic contest. 

US final round is an unnecessary nod to the vanilla-porn "fetish-fans" who make up their fanbase. IMHO, it detracts from some of the (sometimes) excellent combat skills displayed in the previous rounds. The use of a dildo, disempowers the female, by virtue of it being a phallic symbol. Guys who find that "hot" should question their own "homo-erotic" tendencies and inner "gayness".

The more competitive and athletic, the more potential for a punishment to upset the sporting nature of an encounter.

Competitive and athletic don't have to automatically be sporting in nature. Think of fantasy "deathmatches" ......even going back to movies such as "Enter the Dragon".

What do you think?  Any opinions on F v F punishments following competitive bouts?  Thoughts on women who know each other fighting as opposed to women who are meeting for the first time?

Where one girl dominates another, numerous scenarios work. Punishments, by their very nature, must be cruel/painful, however morally justifiable. An obvious real-life example would be Rousey vs Tate. Months of slagging each other off, via twitter and resulting in a tortuous, near career-ending joint manipulation which was the most punishing statement of dominance ever witnessed in WMMA. I was almost expecting the ref to allow a fatal "neck-break" like a 1970s martial arts movie!

[femfightwatcher]

.... or does rubbing salt in the wounds seem a bit too much?

Ideally, the winner should have a sense by the end of the match of how far she can go in breaking a particular victim's pride.  Recall also than some of the great victims (Treena Collins, Kym Jane) were really into the submissive experience.

[DiabloNYC]

No. Female punishment of a male can never be as hot as girl/girl action, because on some level, the guy is having his desires fulfilled. Overtly lesbian encounters also fall into this category. However, straight-girl domination is all about superiority and the humiliation

What a fantastic point!  This is so simple and yet so vital.  Elegantly put, Stewie.

[QZR1712]

No. Female punishment of a male can never be as hot as girl/girl action, because on some level, the guy is having his desires fulfilled. Overtly lesbian encounters also fall into this category. However, straight-girl domination is all about superiority and the humiliation

What a fantastic point!  This is so simple and yet so vital.  Elegantly put, Stewie.

Agree totally, Stewie.  However, I would add that sometimes mixed domination, at least for me, can be equally as hot as long as the male is believable in acting like he doesn't want the punishment the girl is dishing out.  I know at some level he's having his desires fulfilled, but I'm able to suspend disbelief as long as the acting isn't over the top or the guy isn't like 40 lbs heavier or something.  I think the old Greeneyes videos were really good at this, i.e. the guys were at least relatively convincing that they didn't want to be scissored, facesat, etc.  I also think Grapplinggirls does a good job at getting guys who look genuinely surprised that they are losing to girls, although that's less in the punishment/domination realm of things. 

[Ronald_Frump]

No. Female punishment of a male can never be as hot as girl/girl action, because on some level, the guy is having his desires fulfilled. Overtly lesbian encounters also fall into this category. However, straight-girl domination is all about superiority and the humiliation

What a fantastic point!  This is so simple and yet so vital.  Elegantly put, Stewie.

Agree totally, Stewie.  However, I would add that sometimes mixed domination, at least for me, can be equally as hot as long as the male is believable in acting like he doesn't want the punishment the girl is dishing out.  I know at some level he's having his desires fulfilled, but I'm able to suspend disbelief as long as the acting isn't over the top or the guy isn't like 40 lbs heavier or something.  I think the old Greeneyes videos were really good at this, i.e. the guys were at least relatively convincing that they didn't want to be scissored, facesat, etc.  I also think Grapplinggirls does a good job at getting guys who look genuinely surprised that they are losing to girls, although that's less in the punishment/domination realm of things.

I agree that in theory, mixed domination can be realistic: eg

"......nerdy bank manager finds his wife has a lesbian lover; he confronts her, challenges her to a fight and said lover chokes him stupid, relegating him to facesitting-cuckold status....." 

Liz Veyron subbing skinny young guys is also cool. Same for a fat middle-aged guy getting his elbow dislocated by a bratty, judo-trained cheerleader. A young robber being arrested and rear-naked choked by a policewoman; a drunken bodybuilder being triangle-choked unconscious by a female "bouncer" in a nightclub. A US Ambassador getting scissored to death by a female KGB assassin, posing as a call-girl.......

All the above scenarios involve undesirable public humiliation and a slide down the social scale for the men involved. If its just a muscle-bound stud pretending to be pwned by a 120lb model (which 90% of MvsF is), it comes across as fakery and totally lame.

[QZR1712]

I agree that in theory, mixed domination can be realistic: eg

"......nerdy bank manager finds his wife has a lesbian lover; he confronts her, challenges her to a fight and said lover chokes him stupid, relegating him to facesitting-cuckold status....." 

Liz Veyron subbing skinny young guys is also cool. Same for a fat middle-aged guy getting his elbow dislocated by a bratty, judo-trained cheerleader. A young robber being arrested and rear-naked choked by a policewoman; a drunken bodybuilder being triangle-choked unconscious by a female "bouncer" in a nightclub. A US Ambassador getting scissored to death by a female KGB assassin, posing as a call-girl.......

All the above scenarios involve undesirable public humiliation and a slide down the social scale for the men involved. If its just a muscle-bound stud pretending to be pwned by a 120lb model (which 90% of MvsF is), it comes across as fakery and totally lame.

We're getting a little far afield here, but I mostly agree with what you're saying (and all your scenarios sound like videos I'd definitely like to see!).  I'm not sure the state of the MvsF scene is quite as dire as you say, although you're right that there's a ton of unrealistic stuff with girls destroying guys who are obviously much bigger and stronger than them.  In terms of past videos that are not like that, there is Greeneyes, Flamingo, DWW and Premier, to name a few.  As for current producers where the matches are at least somewhat believable, there's GG, FightingDolls, and some of the European stuff with girls like Victoria and Tia. 

Anyways, to get back to the thread, I think a punishment round in a mixed match can definitely be a fun to watch as long as it stays somewhat within the realm of believability and it genuinely seems like the male is not enjoying the punishment.

[DiabloNYC]

Gentlemen, excellent points all.  And an impressive appetite for meanness.  Thank you all so much for your participation in the discussion.  Any other comment too are, of course, welcomed!