UFC 157: Rousey vs. Carmouche: Official discussion thread.....

[femfightwatcher]

$44.99 on standard-definition, $54.99 on HD.

How tacky.

[sammy_scuffles]

How tacky.

What's tacky?

Okay. What would you like me to say? Ronda was in a bad position and a stronger/better grappler might have been more successful in securing the RNC? I agree entirely. Nobody is invincible, including Fedor, Anderson, GSP.......nobody. Especially with the cage adding more surface area than pure mat-based action, thereby allowing quantum mechanics and entropy to play a greater part..........

However, the fact that Ronda defended that particular situation and powered through to another first-round round victory, only demonstrates the difficulty that other challengers will face in future match-ups.

Well I was more wondering if it's changed your opinion on "There's no meaningful fights at 135" and "Cyborg is the only fight anyone cares about" (to paraphrase a bit). From all accounts the PPV has turned out to be pretty successful - 400k to 500k buys is better than your average Frankie Edgar PPV by a pretty fair margin and the basically sold-out gate is pretty nice too, and that's against an opponent that most everyone expected was completely no hope. Granted a strong (on paper) co-main probably helped, but who knows how much that's worth.

For a quantum-mechanics based review:

• Props to Liz Carmouche for really going after that choke. Miesha Tate had arguably a better position in her fight with Rousey and didn't attack it enough.
• Minus points for not standing up after you lost the position and Ronda gave you a chance. I wonder if that was in the gameplan? It would seem weird if Carmouche actually fancied her chances of submitting Rousey off her back, although her success to start the fight might have given her the confidence to invite her back down I guess.
• Ronda is going to have to stop giving up her back or someone is going to convert the chance sooner or later.

[Ronald_Frump]

Well I was more wondering if it's changed your opinion on "There's no meaningful fights at 135" and "Cyborg is the only fight anyone cares about" (to paraphrase a bit). From all accounts the PPV has turned out to be pretty successful - 400k to 500k buys is better than your average Frankie Edgar PPV by a pretty fair margin and the basically sold-out gate is pretty nice too, and that's against an opponent that most everyone expected was completely no hope. Granted a strong (on paper) co-main probably helped, but who knows how much that's worth.

For a quantum-mechanics based review:

• Props to Liz Carmouche for really going after that choke. Miesha Tate had arguably a better position in her fight with Rousey and didn't attack it enough.
• Minus points for not standing up after you lost the position and Ronda gave you a chance. I wonder if that was in the gameplan? It would seem weird if Carmouche actually fancied her chances of submitting Rousey off her back, although her success to start the fight might have given her the confidence to invite her back down I guess.
• Ronda is going to have to stop giving up her back or someone is going to convert the chance sooner or later.

TBH I'm pleased that the ratings were good. I want WMMA to succeed in the UFC, make no "bones" about that (pun intended)......

I would question your assertion that a failed attempt at a RNC made the fight "meaningful". It was effectively shrugged-off and the fight never made it out of the first round. I always knew Liz was a scrapper, but to suggest that her performance had Ronda in serious trouble is stretching the boundaries of credibility, with all due respect.

[sleepinbin]

TBH I'm pleased that the ratings were good. I want WMMA to succeed in the UFC, make no "bones" about that (pun intended)......

I would question your assertion that a failed attempt at a RNC made the fight "meaningful". It was effectively shrugged-off and the fight never made it out of the first round. I always knew Liz was a scrapper, but to suggest that her performance had Ronda in serious trouble is stretching the boundaries of credibility, with all due respect.

first off i will say that i am delighted that i was wrong about the ppv sales - i'd heard nothing but bad things and then suddenly, this. great numbers and i think shows why the ufc don't need cyborg - ronda sells all by herself.

as for the fight, rousey showed serious issues. yes, she won and won handily against a fighter she was expected to beat but she showed a big hole - bad top control. that's an issue that can be exploited. its not about the closeness or not of the choke

[Ronald_Frump]

as for the fight, rousey showed serious issues. yes, she won and won handily against a fighter she was expected to beat but she showed a big hole - bad top control. that's an issue that can be exploited. its not about the closeness or not of the choke

By who? Give me some names, because I don't see anyone on the horizon.

That's why Cyborg is still relevant. She's the only one "quantum" enough to potentially spoil Ronda's gameplan. The rest are too safe and predictable. Ronda will eat them alive and continue with first-round victories.

You lot mark my words.......

[femfightwatcher]

What's tacky?

If the event is filmed in HD that should be the offering to the customer.  Even if they charged everyone the higher price the optics would be better. 

[sleepinbin]

By who? Give me some names, because I don't see anyone on the horizon.

That's why Cyborg is still relevant. She's the only one "quantum" enough to potentially spoil Ronda's gameplan. The rest are too safe and predictable. Ronda will eat them alive and continue with first-round victories.

You lot mark my words.......

my point is it could be anyone. tate and carmouche came close. the potential very clearly exists.

cyborg? meh - of all the people to exploit ronda on the ground? doubt it. and she's very, very predictable! stands in the pocket winging windmill punches!

[sammy_scuffles]

For mine you're overselling the "Another first round victory" point. Yes she won by first round armbar again, but there's lots of different kinds of first round wins.

Vs Kaufmann you have the kind of first round win where you basically make your opponent look like a chump.
Vs Tate you have the kind of first round win where it's a good fight with some back and forth, you give up some good positions but you're never really in danger.
Vs Carmouche you have the kind of first round win where you give up a good position and your opponent very nearly takes it to the house, you tough it out and get the win.

I'm sure most people thought the Carmouche fight was going to look a lot like the Kaufmann fight, the fact that it didn't makes just about every other potential challenger look a whole lot more interesting because on the face of it Carmouche is nothing more than a scrappy middle of the road fighter. And yes I'm saying that fight is relevant, any fight where you nearly get submitted is relevant.

Yes I said "nearly get submitted", and I mean that a little differently to how it might sound. As the choke attempt turned out I don't think Ronda was close to getting choked out. It's possible to choke someone out when your arm isn't under the jaw like that (I think Maia choked out Storey like that fairly recently) but I'd say it's pretty uncommon for little people (and 135 is pretty little) to have the arm strength to pull it off. For the record, I bet that really freakin hurt too.

"So Scuffles," you say. "You said "nearly got submitted" then said she wasn't really that close, whatever do you mean?".

I say the only reason she didn't get choked out is because she got her chin down enough. Carmouche is on her back for around 50 seconds, and she's got her hands locked for at least the last 20 seconds, more than long enough to complete a choke. Ronda's hand fighting is decent but there's still plenty of pressure there as evidenced by the teeth marks in Carmouche's arm (Picture comes from this story here) so that part of her defence wouldn't have been enough to save her.

So yeah, if she doesn't have her chin tucked enough we're sitting her talking about a massive upset. You say: "Good defence". I say "Good enough? Yes, convincing? Not particularly, bring on the rest of the division."

[Ronald_Frump]

IMHO there isn't any woman in the division with the physical strength to take advantage of any situation with Ronda. You need properly conditioned athletes, which none of these bringovers from Strikeforce or Invicta are. I'm talking Olympic-level fitness. What you need is a 135 lb version of Kayla Harrison......or suchlike.

Remember:

• I predicted it would last longer than Kaufman
• I predicted it would be over in the first round
• I predicted it would be Ronda by armbar

No offence, but you guys really need to start listening to me. I think I'm blessed with some kind of "uncanny" insight into these things....... 

[sammy_scuffles]

Perhaps you can use your wondrous abilities as an Oracle to tell us how long it's going to take Cyborg to knock out Ediene Gomes and who's going to win out of Tate and Zingano?

[Ronald_Frump]

Perhaps you can use your wondrous abilities as an Oracle to tell us how long it's going to take Cyborg to knock out Ediene Gomes and who's going to win out of Tate and Zingano?

Let my highly-developed mind concentrate......it's coming.......it's.....yes! I'm there!

• Cyborg via first-round stoppage (TKO)
• Tate via split-decision

.....bet the house on it!