Official UFC 170 "Rousey vs McMann" thread

[jiminy]

Nice pics, BTW, lucad & Stewie. An underrated beauty for sure.

Not keen on her recent tattoo(s) though. Have to say it was refreshing to see Ronda and Miesha, two girls that aren't completely plastered in ink, going at it.

Ronda has a couple of tats, I know, but they are small.

[lucad]

Alright guys, I hadn't been this excited for a fight in a long long time.

I don't know why I love WMMA so much...may be its just their legs and asses...but maybe there's something more. I mean, its a completely unknown territory...fights are so unpredictable (excepts for the Rowdy's ones) and every time you see these ladies stepping into the cage you can smell a different atmosphere. They always show incredible heart and are so relentless, way more than men. So even though the skill level needs to improve a lot, the fights are never boring or tactical...

That being said, I found this interesting article by Mitchell Ciccarelli, who is the only professional brave enough to predict the big upset, e.g. McMann beating the Rowdy One.
The one thing I completely agree with him is: IT IS NOW OR NEVER. I love the style of Cat Zingano, I'd love to see Alexis Davis going against Ronda, I'd love to see a real striker, like Holly Holm, testing for real Ronda's chin, but I cant see how they could actually prevent Ronda, sooner or later in the fight, from taking their arms apart.
Provided Cyborg is out of the picture, the real challenge to Ronda's game is Mrs Sara McMann. I see her like the only one in WMMA right now having the power, the strenght, the pedigree in combat sports, to counter Ronda's skills. At least, the Sara McMann I use to think she is (my only doubt is Im overestimating her strenghts as a well rounded mixed martial artist, and truthfully she hasnt been tested yet).

"Love her or hate her, Ronda Rousey is the biggest star in mixed martial arts today. Period. Point blank.

The UFC women's bantamweight champion stormed into the Octagon last Saturday night—with a mean mug that would make even the largest grizzly bear soil itself, determined to destroy Miesha Tate. She did just that.

Tate put up a valiant effort, pushing Rousey past the opening round for the first time in her career and refusing to surrender until the third round. The former Strikeforce champion threw everything but the kitchen sink at her blond nemesis.

But as good as Tate is, Rousey is simply better. No matter how hard Tate trains and how much she evolves as a fighter, Rousey will always be superior. That's just the harsh reality.

After witnessing Rousey finish yet another opponent with an armbar, I started to question whether anyone in the women's bantamweight division can step up to this seemingly indestructible juggernaut.

Surely, if Cris "Cyborg" Justino were in the UFC, she'd mop the floor with Rousey, but we all know that fight isn't happening anytime soon—if ever, for that matter, so there's no point in harping on it.

Contenders like Cat Zingano and Alexis Davis certainly pose threats, but in all likelihood, Rousey will hang their arms up on her mantle as well.

That's just the nature of the beast. Perhaps, there is nobody on the UFC's roster right now who can hold a candle to the Olympian.

Wait a minute. Wait... a minute. Aren't we forgetting somebody?

Rousey isn't the only Olympic-level athlete in the division. There is another, and, unfortunately for the defending champion, that certain somebody is coming to take her belt at UFC 170.

Her name is Sara McMann, and she's Rousey's worst nightmare.

How will the Ronda Rousey vs. Sara McMann fight end?
Rousey by submission
50.6%
Rousey by (T)KO
1.8%
Rousey by decision
5.0%
McMann by submission
5.7%
McMann by (T)KO
19.7%
McMann by decision
15.7%
Draw
1.4%
Total votes: 8,188

I realize that's a bold statement, and I will probably come under heavy fire for saying it, but hear me out for a second.

As great as Rousey looked in her last bout, Tate still made it a fight. Wrestling with Rousey probably wasn't the most intelligent game plan on Tate's part, but she may have exposed a very tiny chink in Rousey's armor with her efforts—a chink only a world-class wrestler such as McMann can capitalize on.

A silver medalist in the 2004 Summer Olympic Games, McMann's wrestling is eons ahead of her competition. In all of her MMA fights, she had the luxury of knowing she could take her opponents anywhere she wanted.

If she wanted to take it to the ground, she did it in a heartbeat. If she wanted to completely negate her enemy's ground game altogether, she did that as well. Case in point: her Invicta FC bout with Shayna Baszler. The ball has always been in McMann's court, and it should be no different against Rousey.

I'm not saying it will be impossible for Rousey to bring McMann to the floor. Everybody knows how strong Rousey is. I mean, she could probably toss an elephant to the ground if she wanted to.

I'm not trying to discredit the effectiveness of her judo throws at all. I'm just saying it's going to be a lot harder to pull them off against McMann.

So, let's just say this fight ends up being a standup battle. Rousey's boxing has improved leaps and bounds. We saw glimpses of it in her bout with Tate, so there's a good chance she could hurt McMann on the feet, but there is an even greater chance just the opposite will happen.

McMann might not be the most technical striker, but she packs a wallop in her punches. Now, I'm not going to sit here and try to oversell her power, because that would be silly. McMann has never knocked out anyone on her feet, but she has shown signs of hidden knockout power in previous bouts.

In a standup war with Rousey, she might get hit a lot, but she should be able to land the more significant strikes and, potentially, put her to sleep.

But there's also the chance that McMann doesn't want to stand with her. She might actually want to put Rousey on her back, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, that's usually where Rousey wants to be, but not against someone with such an overwhelming top game.

If this is McMann's strategy, I expect her to be patient on top and control Rousey's hips. She won't throw any reckless ground-and-pound, because that will create openings for Rousey to apply the armbar.

McMann doesn't have the world's best submission defense, but her control on the ground is in a league of its own, and that will be the key to beating Rousey.

I realize this is all wishful thinking, but in this battle of Olympians, I have to favor the wrestler. Stylistically speaking, McMann is the worst possible matchup for Rousey besides the aforementioned "Cyborg." You can throw anyone else in front of Rousey and she will win, but she won't prevail this time. Not now.

With Anderson Silva and Georges St-Pierre both out of the picture in 2014, all signs point to Rousey as being the new PPV queen for the UFC. But her time is running out. In seven weeks, a new champion will be crowned, and there will be a new face of women's MMA.

Sara McMann might not be the champion that you want, but she's the one you need."

[Ronald_Frump]

Not convinced.

Baszler took McMann the distance and many people thought she won that fight. Sara's chin also seemed questionable, as she got rocked with a bomb right at the end. I would guess Ronda hits harder than Shayna, so all this talk of keeping it standing may not be a viable game plan.

Pena did a far more impressive job in demolishing Baszler during the recent TUF competition. That suggests Pena is already at a higher level in MMA, than McMann is. Personally, I think they're making too much of the "Olympic Silver Medalist" bit, when we're not seeing evidence of this supposed skill-set transition to results in actual competition. 

This is the type of girl who could potentially brutalize Ronda:

   

[sammy_scuffles]

Baszler took McMann the distance and many people thought she won that fight. Sara's chin also seemed questionable, as she got rocked with a bomb right at the end. I would guess Ronda hits harder than Shayna, so all this talk of keeping it standing may not be a viable game plan.

Baszler won the first round handily against Pena and then gassed really badly to get beaten. She also gassed out pretty bad in her fight against Davis. She didn't really struggle with her conditioning as much against McMann, so I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that Pena's skill set is better than McMann's. It's arguably more well-rounded, but if the two fought then likely McMann would take her down repeatedly and win by controlling top position the entire fight. Your thinking is simply too results-oriented to account for the fact that WMMA is still a game where being outstanding at one facet is enough to win nearly all of your fights.

For mine the loss against Pena is totally on Baszler. She's the better fighter skillset wise - and easily too, she just wasn't in good enough shape physically or mentally.

Saying that you would guess that Ronda hits harder than Shayna is literally nothing more than a guess. Rousey's striking is pretty much completely unproven. She might have power, she might not. She's definitely strong, but strength doesn't always translate into actual punching power - GSP was always absurdly strong for a welterweight but he never really did more than flash for-real knockout power. The shot at the end of the Baszler / McMann fight was right on the button and definitely rocked McMann but her response was spot on - she went straight to her wrestling when she was hurt. The round ended before we got to see if she'd recover quickly enough but that reaction is encouraging at least.

The 135 division is still a game of matchups. Baszler is a bad matchup for McMann because her best strength (her submissions on the ground) sort of partly nullifies McMann's best strength - the fact that she can take people down whenever she wants. Rousey's different. We know what she wants to do - take people down and grapple from top position until she finds an arm. McMann may have a skill-set that can prevent the takedowns. That's unproven, but if it turns out that she can make it into a striking match then it's a toss-up for mine. If she can't prevent takedowns and ends up on her back repeatedly then it'll be a short night. If she can, then who knows?

This is the type of girl who could potentially brutalize Ronda:

A Judo fight really doesn't translate. This is a girl that's pretty close to equal to Rousey in Judo. That merely suggests that neither can easily take down the other. You'll note the near-complete lack of any interesting exchanges on the ground. Competition Judo. Hurrah.

[Ronald_Frump]

Saying that you would guess that Ronda hits harder than Shayna is literally nothing more than a guess. Rousey's striking is pretty much completely unproven. She might have power, she might not. She's definitely strong, but strength doesn't always translate into actual punching power

Its an educated guess, based on the fact that R3 is a natural 150 lbs-er who has been dropping WBA pro sparring partners in training. Compare that to the much lighter Baszler, who isn't likely to become the next Lucia Rjiker anytime soon.......

Rousey's different. We know what she wants to do - take people down and grapple from top position until she finds an arm.

It doesn't really matter if she's on her back, or halfway through a roll......she takes the arm at will.

Sorry, that's absurd. Sure, a flying armbar is a thing but it's so vanishingly rare in actual competition that to say it's "just as much a possibility" is ridiculous.

Oh really?    watch from 2:40 mins......   

A Judo fight really doesn't translate. This is a girl that's pretty close to equal to Rousey in Judo. That merely suggests that neither can easily take down the other.

What that video proves is that there are girls who are equal/superior to R3 in physical strength, grappling skill, explosive power and aggression - and I'm saying those are qualities that are prerequisites to beating the champ at her own game. There's arguably a larger talent pool of 135 lb elite female grapplers worldwide, than there is effective one-punch KO strikers with excellent TDD. Even in male MMA, the latter aspect tends to lend itself to the higher weight divisions.

In the meantime War Rousey!

[sammy_scuffles]

It's still just a guess. She might hit hard. Hopefully someone will make her need to.

I stand corrected on the flying armbar, although really that's borderline-ish for me on whether you'd really call it 'flying'.. more like a little hop. For me this is a flying armbar! 

Regardless, it's still rare and Rousey is vastly more likely to take someone down to land on top rather than jump for an armbar.

I do love how completely nonplussed everybody is when Mazagatti stops that fight. D'Alelio is standing there going 'what?' and Ronda just sort of walks away like she didn't know what happened rather than celebrating. I hadn't seen that before but it sure didn't look like she tapped to me.

I'd tend to agree that there's much more talent at 135 in grappling sports than there is in MMA so far, but that's the thing - they're all in grappling sports still. Which means they're at least 2 years away from the possibility of a fight with Rousey even if they start now and progress at a reasonable pace. Why waste time worrying about that right now when there's a list of contenders that already exist and already have interesting skill sets?

Also, a fighter doesn't need to knock Rousey out with one punch to beat her. There's absolutely no reason why someone can't beat Rousey by accumulating damage or by simply winning the standup if they can prevent her takedowns. That's a tough ask because of how good her takedowns are, but great wrestling has tended to stuff great Judo fairly well in mens MMA, so it's possible McMann will be able to make a fight out of it.

One other question for you Stewie, you're the biggest Ronda fan in the world, what do you think of her behaviour on TUF and refusing to shake hands with Tate after their fight?

[Ronald_Frump]

One other question for you Stewie, you're the biggest Ronda fan in the world, what do you think of her behaviour on TUF and refusing to shake hands with Tate after their fight?

I think its all part of the bad-girl hype-train. Personally I think she should have shaken hands after the fight, or at least slapped her palm.

[Ronald_Frump]

Face-off!

[sammy_scuffles]

I think its all part of the bad-girl hype-train. Personally I think she should have shaken hands after the fight, or at least slapped her palm.

She's not behaving like that with McMann though. I think her behavior with Tate was the real deal. Tate got under her skin big time and Rousey turned into a Diaz brother for a while. She also didn't seem to recognize that Tate did her an enormous favour by offering that handshake. If she takes it then the bit where people hated how she behaved on TUF pretty much goes away. Now people probably won't forget.

[jiminy]

One of Sara's slams:

[Ronald_Frump]

One of Sara's slams:

Nice! 

[sammy_scuffles]

Off topic slightly, but Cat Zingano's husband passed away this week. Nothing official but I've seen it reported as a suicide in a couple of places. Sad.

[Ronald_Frump]

According to this analysis, Sara's toes are likely to prove her downfall 

Ronda Rousey v Sara Mcmann Preview Part 1: Grappling

[sammy_scuffles]

Interesting analysis, but realistically it seems likely that McMann's gameplan has to be to spend as little time on the mat anyway.

[Ronald_Frump]

UFC 170-Ronda Rousey vs. Sara McMann: Rousey full workout