Womens' MMA mega-thread

[jiminy]

I think she is genuinely too big for 135 and if the UFC are only doing a 135 division (as Dana White says) then she might as well look elsewhere.

She needs to get back into the cage. Even before her drugs suspension, she had an 18 month layoff because Strikeforce couldn't find anyone for her to fight. So only 2 fights in 3 years, 1 of which was a co-contest.

[Ronald_Frump]

I'd have preferred to see her fight Ronda at 140 lbs catchweight. WTF does 5 lbs matter in the great scheme of things? That would have been more reasonable for Cyborg and given more respect to Rousey if she managed to win.

[sammy_scuffles]

Agreed. There's only two conclusions to draw from this......

She's willing to stake her reputation on her marketability with another org.
She's hoping to get a bigger purse off Dana

whaddy think? 

I think the conclusion is simpler than that. She can't make 135 and the UFC have told her in no uncertain terms that it doesn't matter how much she yammers on about a catchweight fight it's not going to happen.

Despite the fact that fans want to see it the catch weight fight is bad business. 135 is the only game in town at the UFC. If Cyborg can't fight there then Rousey is literally her only fight available that anybody gives a damn about.

If Rousey goes up to fight her and loses then she's still the champion at 135 except now she's a champion that lost her last fight and the whole division is diminished because of it. And it's of little benefit to Cyborg because there's still nobody else for her to fight afterwards. I mean, name me one fighter that you want to see Cyborg fight who can't currently make 135 and fight in the division that actually exists?

[sleepinbin]

Understandable. Cyborg is not a 135 pound fighter.

Agreed. There's only two conclusions to draw from this......

• She's willing to stake her reputation on her marketability with another org.
• She's hoping to get a bigger purse off Dana

whaddy think? 

i think there's a third conclusion here that makes far more sense: tito is an idiot with an axe to grind.

[Ronald_Frump]

I think the conclusion is simpler than that. She can't make 135

I disagree...... if she's off the juice she should make it no problemo, mon amigo........ 

Despite the fact that fans want to see it the catch weight fight is bad business. 135 is the only game in town at the UFC. If Cyborg can't fight there then Rousey is literally her only fight available that anybody gives a damn about.

Even as a one-off, surely it's worth it financially, to all parties concerned?

If Rousey goes up to fight her and loses then she's still the champion at 135 except now she's a champion that lost her last fight and the whole division is diminished because of it.

The current champ loses to the previous champ in a one-off catchweight event......how does that diminish the 135 lb division?

And it's of little benefit to Cyborg because there's still nobody else for her to fight afterwards. I mean, name me one fighter that you want to see Cyborg fight who can't currently make 135 and fight in the division that actually exists?

There's a potential catchweight re-match. Then she can always go to the other orgs after the UFC money-maker is exhausted.

Basically its the fight fans want to see at 135/140/145 lbs. They couldn't give jack-shit about a few pounds of flesh preventing them getting their pound of flesh......  and I'm sure 5 lbs of flesh isn't going to alter the outcome, either.

[sleepinbin]

Even as a one-off, surely it's worth it financially, to all parties concerned?

not to ronda. you are grossly overestimating the popularity of wmma and the notoreity of cyborg among casual fans. for ronda, it makes as much sense to take other bouts at 135, and more sense if the opponents are less dangerous.

The current champ loses to the previous champ in a one-off catchweight event......how does that diminish the 135 lb division?

bellator have twice seen champions lose non-title bouts and it has done nothing for their reputation and made both champs (m'pumbu and lima) seem like jokes. the ufc are big on image, there is no way they risk this while there are relevant and marketable challengers for ronda at 135, which there are. especially ones not managed by tito and with past histories of steroid abuse.

There's a potential catchweight re-match. Then she can always go to the other orgs after the UFC money-maker is exhausted.

Basically its the fight fans want to see at 135/140/145 lbs. They couldn't give jack-shit about a few pounds of flesh preventing them getting their pound of flesh......  and I'm sure 5 lbs of flesh isn't going to alter the outcome, either.

nope. the majority of causal fans - i.e. those who contribute 95% of the ufc's bottom line - don't give two shits about cyborg.

[jiminy]

Let's face it, if the UFC could get away with not having Fedor in the late 00's when Pride finished and he was considered the #1 HW by a country mile, they can get away with not having Cyborg, whom they don't even have a weight class for anyway.

I think if she could make 135, she would have already. It's always been a more active weight class and the girls that could make the drop (Ronda, Marloes, etc) already did so when they were in Strikeforce.

Cyborg lost a lot of momentum and bargaining power by getting busted for steroids. If she hadn't, alluding to the fact that Ronda used to fight at 145 and spoke of challenging Cyborg for her 145 title and then back-tracking would carry a lot more weight. But now, very few care, it seems.

Cyborg could always ask to enter the men's UFC featherweight division... Unification bout with Aldo... 

[Ronald_Frump]

@ SiB

You're forgetting the "freakshow/novelty" value. Plenty of Sherdoggers are keen to see this. The 135 division is meaningless with Ronda destroying the opposition via one-minute walkovers. The legend of Cyborg is the only thing that will save WMMA in the UFC.

Its either Chris vs Ronda, or interest will wane...... mark my words. Invicta will be the only place to watch serious competitive action and Dana will be forced to ditch WMMA like a broke-dick dawg.

[sleepinbin]

@ SiB

You're forgetting the "freakshow/novelty" value. Plenty of Sherdoggers are keen to see this. The 135 division is meaningless with Ronda destroying the opposition via one-minute walkovers. The legend of Cyborg is the only thing that will save WMMA in the UFC.

Its either Chris vs Ronda, or interest will wane...... mark my words. Invicta will be the only place to watch serious competitive action and Dana will be forced to ditch WMMA like a broke-dick dawg.

sherdoggers arent really representative of most of mma's paying audiecne, really, and youll find its maybe a couple of dozen vocal people in favour of the fight. do i think its a great fight? yeah! would i watch it? of course! do i think cyborg is even slightly neccessary for wmma to succeed? no. really, no. when the vast majority of paying fans dont know her that well, its as easy for the ufc to market someone who is less of a liability and do just as well (or poorly). cyborg-rousey would imo not sell much better than rousey-whoever, and would still do worse than a ppv headlined by any name male fighter. thats just where mma is at as a sport right now.

[Ronald_Frump]

cyborg-rousey would imo not sell much better than rousey-whoever, and would still do worse than a ppv headlined by any name male fighter. thats just where mma is at as a sport right now.

I agree re. the comparison with male headliners. However, anyone who is remotely interested in WMMA is aware of the Gina/Cyborg era.

What I'm trying to say, is that first-round armbars are all that's on the horizon for UFC WMMA, without Cyborg. Compare this to Invicta, where interesting, competitive matches are commonplace.

IMHO Ronda is a victim of her own success and I fear that Dana has jumped the gun, if he thinks the UFC umbrella is enough to make WMMA succeed within that org.

You've said it yourself, that the casual UFC fan couldn't care less. Well IMHO Joe Average won't be impressed by a couple of gals headlining a card and giving 40 seconds of armbar-entertainment. That one-trick pony will wear out fast.......and I say that as a Ronda fanboy.

I really don't see what all the catchweight objections are? There's enough talk of Bones vs Dos Santos and that's an entire weight division of difference 

[sammy_scuffles]

It's a post of random points, mostly picking on Stewie! 

The current champ loses to the previous champ in a one-off catchweight event......how does that diminish the 135 lb division?

You can get away with this with established superstars. If GSP goes up and fights Anderson Silva and gets knocked out then he's still going to be the most dominant welterweight in history. If Ronda goes up and loses to Cyborg then her star power is gone because she hasn't been around long enough to be an established household name. A lot of people who watch her fight against Carmouche will probably be seeing her for the first time. That's how new to the game she is.

The legend of Cyborg is the only thing that will save WMMA in the UFC.

How does one fight save anything? What happens after it's done? If Cyborg wins who does she fight? If Rousey wins how is the situation any different to how it is right now (And you're still faced with the problem of who does Cyborg fight next)?

There's a potential catchweight re-match. Then she can always go to the other orgs after the UFC money-maker is exhausted.

So your only plan is a rematch? That's not a good sign.

IMHO Ronda is a victim of her own success and I fear that Dana has jumped the gun, if he thinks the UFC umbrella is enough to make WMMA succeed within that org.

I agree with this to a degree. Naturally I don't instantly assume that Ronda is going to easily armbar all comers as much as you do, but if the UFC is serious about WMMA then it's now their job to build credible challengers to her. I'm disappointed we haven't got any other fights announced in the division yet, that's just slack.

I think if she could make 135, she would have already. It's always been a more active weight class and the girls that could make the drop (Ronda, Marloes, etc) already did so when they were in Strikeforce.

Cyborg lost a lot of momentum and bargaining power by getting busted for steroids. If she hadn't, alluding to the fact that Ronda used to fight at 145 and spoke of challenging Cyborg for her 145 title and then back-tracking would carry a lot more weight. But now, very few care, it seems.

I agree with this.

I really don't see what all the catchweight objections are? There's enough talk of Bones vs Dos Santos and that's an entire weight division of difference 

This is because people are idiots who really don't understand how much a "small" difference in weight makes. It really does matter. There's a reason why fighters cut weight to fight in the smallest weight class they can, even at the lower weights where the classes are pretty close together. It's because it makes a difference.

Simple fact is that every fighter who matters except for Cyborg is at 135. If she can't get there then she is completely irrelevant to the UFC because they're committed to a division at 135. So Cyborg goes off and beats up Japanese chicks for a while (hey they don't drug test over there do they?) and Rousey does her UFC thing. If they both roll out 3 or 4 convincing wins then it's worth talking about.

[crushed4life]

Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos talks about asking for a release from the UFC, where she might fight next, losing her first fight and says she is not afraid of the ground with anyone. She also says no female has been able to throw her or stop her throws.

http://mmainterviews.tv/2013/02/11/cyborg-santos-confirms-she-asked-for-release-from-the-ufc-not-afraid-of-ground-with-rousey/

[Ronald_Frump]

It's a post of random points, mostly picking on Stewie! 

Finally, we agree on something!

[jiminy]

What about Cyborg fighting in the men's 145 division? Could she make any impact at all?

She could certainly beat a lot of the guys on the British circuit around her weight class. Guys like Craig Allen would get wrecked by Cyborg.

[sleepinbin]

I agree re. the comparison with male headliners. However, anyone who is remotely interested in WMMA is aware of the Gina/Cyborg era.

What I'm trying to say, is that first-round armbars are all that's on the horizon for UFC WMMA, without Cyborg. Compare this to Invicta, where interesting, competitive matches are commonplace.

IMHO Ronda is a victim of her own success and I fear that Dana has jumped the gun, if he thinks the UFC umbrella is enough to make WMMA succeed within that org.

You've said it yourself, that the casual UFC fan couldn't care less. Well IMHO Joe Average won't be impressed by a couple of gals headlining a card and giving 40 seconds of armbar-entertainment. That one-trick pony will wear out fast.......and I say that as a Ronda fanboy.

I really don't see what all the catchweight objections are? There's enough talk of Bones vs Dos Santos and that's an entire weight division of difference 

they are - but most of that was on gina. plus cyborg has tarnished her brand and been away for ages. she's a footnote now who has lost respect and cachet among those who know and is of no interest to those who don't.

i agree that they can't rely on ronda, but they just announced tate-zigano and will hopefully continue to fill out the division slowly and build it up, as they are doing at 125lbs right now. its not all ronda. having her headlining is a big risk, sure, but we'll see.

bones jds will never happen until one moves up or down. silva/gsp is being mooted as they are HUGE superstars and have cleaned out their divisions to an extent, it's the biggest money fight in the ufc, and neither man really wants it. it's still very unlikely to happen any time soon unless silva sets a retirement date.

What about Cyborg fighting in the men's 145 division? Could she make any impact at all?

She could certainly beat a lot of the guys on the British circuit around her weight class. Guys like Craig Allen would get wrecked by Cyborg.

not a hope. if the sport wants to legitimise itself in the mainstream - which it does - it's certainly not gonna cater to our fetish. gonna have to accept that, buddy. most people have no interest in watching women beat up crap men or (worse still) get beat up by good ones. it's suicide for the sport 'cos that's how society works right now. regardless that most male fighters would never do it, promoters aren't that insane and desperate.

i mean, is that all you aspire to for wmma? taking on the bottom 5% of men? it's daft and kinda shitty for those women and doesn't happen in other sports... mma is just about the worst sport to try to pioneer it!