Womens' MMA mega-thread

[crushed4life]

i mean, is that all you aspire to for wmma? taking on the bottom 5% of men? it's daft and kinda shitty for those women and doesn't happen in other sports... mma is just about the worst sport to try to pioneer it!

Yeah, it's almost an admission that WMMA isn't going to be more than a sideshow 

[sammy_scuffles]

Miesha Tate will fight Cat Zingano at the TUF 17 finale. That's April 13.

Linky

[sammy_scuffles]

What about Cyborg fighting in the men's 145 division? Could she make any impact at all?

She could certainly beat a lot of the guys on the British circuit around her weight class. Guys like Craig Allen would get wrecked by Cyborg.

This sort of post is really silly.

[crushed4life]

February 12, 2013
Ronda Rousey in her usual brash manner ahead of UFC debut
Rousey tired of 'Cryborg' Santos, excited for Miesha Tate vs. Cate ZiganoBy Case Keefer
Mon, Feb 11, 2013 (6:15 p.m.)
UFC 157: Rousey vs. Carmouche Primetime episode 1

When Ronda Rousey became the first female fighter to ever sign with the UFC, Dana White gushed over her bravado and the trash talk that accompanies it.

She's lived up to the UFC president's billing two months later — just not in regards to her first opponent. Rousey (6-0) is all positive when it comes Liz Carmouche (8-2), whom she meets in the main event of UFC 157, Saturday, Feb. 23 in Anaheim, Calif.

"There wasn't a single day I didn't turn on my Twitter and see Liz rallying her followers to petition for this fight," Rousey said Monday. "She went about it by being specific, not trying to create some argument or insult me or start bickering. I had to respect the way she went about petitioning for this fight while all these other girls were asking for more time or wanted another fight to prepare better."

Carmouche, whom Rousey also respects because of her five years of service in the Marines, might be the only top-level female fighter the UFC women's bantamweight champion doesn't have a problem with. Rousey, who has submitted all of her opponents with arm bars in the first round, feels the rest are afraid to fight her — especially Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos.

The UFC targeted Cyborg (10-1), long considered the best women's fighter in the world, as Rousey's first opponent in the octagon. But she passed up the opportunity and has since asked for her release from the UFC, according to her manager Tito Ortiz on a recent episode of "Inside MMA."

"She's just desperate for attention and seeing herself fade into irrelevance, so she's turning into 'Cryborg' and making a big fit about nothing," Rousey said.

The UFC has no plans to implement additional women's weight divisions aside from the 135-pound class where Rousey reigns, which is Cyborg's gripe.

Cyborg, who has spent her career fighting at 145 pounds, says she can't cut down to Rousey's weight.

"For her to get down to 135 pounds is physically impossible for a woman," Ortiz said on "Inside MMA." "For a man, it's different because we have a lot more water weight to take off. For Cris Cyborg to get down to that weight, she's going to be 3 to 4 percent body fat. I've talked to her. She says she wants to start a family later on, she wants to have kids."

Rousey doesn't buy the excuse. She cites the UFC's offer to pay for renowned nutritionist Mike Dolce, who says he can get Cyborg to 135 pounds and in shape to the point where she could easily beat Rousey.

Rousey also takes offense to Cyborg making demands after coming off a yearlong suspension for testing positive for anabolic steroids.

"This whole spiel about how 'my doctor says it's going to hurt my heart and my ability to have babies,' well, you can find your own doctor to think whatever you want to," Rousey said. "Regardless of that, where was all this concern about her heart and having babies in the future when she was shooting steroids up her (butt)? Anyone with half of a brain can see she's using this to her advantage just because it happens to work for her right now."

Rousey hopes Cyborg sticks in the UFC and takes what the champion once called "the only fight that really makes sense." In Rousey's perfect world, all of the best female fighters would be centralized in the UFC.

That hasn't happened to this point, but the UFC did announce its second-ever women's fight Monday. Rousey approved of the matchup between Miesha Tate and Cat Zingano, which will take place on "The Ultimate Fighter: Jones vs. Sonnen" finale April 13 in Las Vegas.

"Zingano's undefeated and has been talking about how she wants to fight me but apparently wants to fight Miesha first," Rousey said. "And Miesha has just been running her mouth in general and I like fighting her because I think she deserves a beating. I'll be very interested to see who wants that fight. It's very likely I'll be fighting the winner of that match."

Rousey and Tate share a rivalry dating back to before they first fought last year. But it seems minimized in comparison to Rousey's feud with Cyborg.

"This is the type of person who comes into fights pumped full of steroids, which is criminally negligent in putting these other girls in danger," Rousey said. "She's walking in with a weapon pretty much when they don't. I don't see where the sense of entitlement comes to where she thinks they should be creating new divisions for her and doing all this stuff for her. I feel like, you've been exposed and defamed as a fraud. You're the one that should be making these changes to try to prove yourself."

Rousey's willing to admit she's particularly fiery at the moment. She gets this way before every fight — even for one where she thinks highly of the opponent.

"I just wish the fight was tonight," Rousey said. "I get to the point when I'm two weeks out to where I'm impatient. I'm ready to go. I'm in the shape I need to be in. Now we're just killing time and waiting for that night to come."

[crushed4life]

Ronda's mom on Cris Cyborg:

Her excuses for not going down in weight are bullshit. She says she wants to have children at some point, but that cutting the weight might hinder it. I will tell you the deal. What happens when you cut weight or get down to a certain body fat percentage, and this happens frequently with women that are elite athletes, is you quit having periods. It's called amenorrhea. That's a temporary condition. I'm a good Catholic girl. I was married for five years before I had my first child, and then I had three more. I competed for years, and over Christmas time, there were no tournaments, and I had put on some weight. I ended up pregnant. It kept me out of the 1982 Worlds. Her excuses are total bullshit. You can be at 3% body fat, you're done competing, and then you go and have a few cheeseburgers, and you're pregnant the next month. Take it from me, I competed at a very low body fat percentage, and when I quit competing and started putting on a little weight, I had no problems getting pregnant.

She asked to be released from her contract because I think she's realized she can't win without the steroids. She's not stupid, and knows that Ronda would beat her. Ronda holds a grudge, and I'm pretty sure she would break something on her. She definitely holds a grudge and takes things personally, and I think the referee would end up having to pull her off. I think Cyborg realizes that she can't beat Ronda on fair terms. If you look at how she looked several years ago, compared to how she looks now ... that's steroids. I know because I competed at the highest level for 14 years, and I know what just training gets you.

[crushed4life]

Dana White says Cyborg is irrelevant, and her claims are wacky:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxhq6c_dana-white-talks-about-the-cyborg-ufc-situation_sport

[crushed4life]

Ronda Rousey wants 'to earn' her belt
Feb 13, 2013 12:04 PM
By Franklin McNeil

She will walk into the Honda Center arena in Anaheim, Calif., on Feb. 23 to defend a title belt she neither asked for nor wanted.

Women's bantamweight champion Ronda Rousey makes her Octagon debut in the main event at UFC 157. She will face Liz Carmouche in the first women's bout in UFC history.

Rousey is the defending champion. It's a designation she isn't yet comfortable embracing. And who can blame her? The title was practically thrust upon her.

"When they [UFC] brought in the guys from WEC they gave (featherweight champion) Jose Aldo and (bantamweight champion) Dominick Cruz their belts," Rousey told ESPN.com. "They did that to me as well when they brought the women's division over. But I don't feel like I've really earned it.

" When [UFC president] Dana White gave me the belt I told him I didn't want it, I wanted to fight for it. But he said, 'I'm going to give it to you anyway and you can think whatever you want.'

" -- Ronda Rousey, on receiving the UFC belt No disrespect to White or anyone else, but Rousey, who was the Strikeforce women's bantamweight titleholder before that promotion officially folded in January, believes no one can be called UFC champion until they compete and win inside the Octagon.

But UFC is the largest and most successful promotion in mixed martial arts, so when White issues a directive, fighters usually go along with it. Rousey saw no need to engage White on this issue.

While Rousey remains uncomfortable with being labeled UFC champion now, she deals with it. Besides, she has a bigger matter to address on Feb. 23 -- beating Carmouche and keeping women's mixed martial arts viable.

Unlike any other fighter, mixed martial artist or boxer, Rousey finds herself in a truly must-win situation. If she fails to defeat Carmouche, it's very likely that every female mixed martial artist will suffer.

UFC created a women's bantamweight division solely because of Rousey's success and star power. There is no other women's division in UFC, and there isn't any talk of creating others.

For now, the presence of women fighters in UFC depends on Rousey's continued success. She needs to beat every fighter placed in front of her for the foreseeable future to ensure that women mixed martial artists remain employed by the promotion.

Carmouche, and every other female fighter, is determined to dethrone Rousey. But if they succeed, they do so at their own peril – and that of every woman on UFC's roster.

It's that simple.

Rousey is very much aware of the precarious situation women's MMA finds itself in at the moment. But she is up to the task of fighting to keep women's MMA relevant in UFC -- even if it is just the 135-pound division.

"I don't mind having that kind of pressure on me," Rousey said. "I feel that the more pressure there is, the more I fight above myself.

"And I like to pretend like it's going to be the end of the world, the end of the world depends on whether or not I win the fight, because it is the end of the world for me.

"I'm fighting to win, and I'm fighting to keep women in UFC. And I'm not entertaining the idea about what will happen if I lose because I'm not going to lose."

Rousey's confidence is infectious. Despite such a heavy burden on her shoulders, she accepts the ordeal with a big smile on her face. She will not be deterred.

How can anyone not support this fighter who carries the weight of so many others on her shoulders?

Confidence, however, isn't the only thing Rousey that is relying on to get her pass Carmouche. She remains humble. Despite being a gifted athlete, Rousey never takes an opponent for granted. She isn't looking past Carmouche (8-2).

"[Carmouche] is a very dangerous fighter," Rousey said. "My last opponent, Sarah Kaufman, was also a former champion in Strikeforce. And was a very good striker, very disciplined. But she was very predictable and very easy to prepare for.

"Whereas with Liz, there are fights when she comes out with flying knees, or fights when she comes in with spinning back fists, or fights when she comes in throwing a right kick followed by a right hook right away. She's very unorthodox and very unpredictable.

"There are girls who've underestimated her before. She fought for the Strikeforce title against Marloes Coenen and dominated [Coenen] for four rounds and made one mistake and got caught in a triangle sent from God and lost the fight.

"She is just the type of person you don't underestimate, and I haven't been in the least. I don't care what people are saying or what oddsmakers are saying, I still consider myself an underdog in every single fight."

That's Rousey: never one to rest on her impressive laurels. No wonder she seems to become more dominant with each fight.

Rousey has won all six of her professional bouts by arm-bar submission. She also used the technique to finish all three of her amateur opponents in the opening round.

Her proficiency on the ground might cause some to question whether she is a one-trick pony. What will happen if Rousey finds herself in a standup battle or has to venture into the second round?

"I'm prepared for everything," Rousey said. "I train to be a mixed martial artist, not to be an arm-bar specialist. I train to be prepared for the worst-case scenario.

"The first round actually was always my worst. I used to call it first-rounditis when I was doing judo.

"It's so funny to hear all these girls say, 'If I get her out of the first round, I'm going to see the defeat in her eyes.' I'm like, 'Dude, I'm just opening up. You don't want to see what the second round looks like.'"

Maybe we'll get to see the post-first-round Rousey on Feb. 23. But be prepared; it could get frightening.

[Ronald_Frump]

Dana White says Cyborg is irrelevant, and her claims are wacky:

She's irrelevant in regard to making 135 lbs. If Ronda subs Liz within the first round, then IMHO Cyborg is the only relevant challenger at any weight. As I said before, the UFC can't support Ronda without serious competition. The fans are already skeptical of WMMA and if they lose interest........

BTW Invicta is doing quite well, thank you very much! 

[sammy_scuffles]

Stewie I just can't understand how you think there's no relevant fights at 135 for Ronda. There's at least three fights I want to see for Ronda at 135.

• I want to see her fight a legit quality grappler (Davis) to see how that goes on the ground
• I want to see her fight the best wrestler in WMMA (McMann) to see if she can take down a top quality wrestler
• I want to see her fight Miesha Tate again because that was a really good fight the first time around even if it wasn't really long.

Naturally Ronda would be the favourite in all those fights, but they're all interesting because the first two pose skill-set matchups we haven't seen Ronda face yet and because Tate was able to push Ronda in their first fight.

The reason Cyborg is irrelevant is because there are no other fights for her other than Ronda and she can't fight in the division that exists. White's plan was a good one - contract her, get her fights in Invicta while the 135 division establishes itself, then think about it if everything goes to plan. If she won't go along with that plan then she (and / or Tito) is stupid. Throwing your toys out of the pram because you don't get Ronda in your first fight back from a drug suspension is absolutely ridiculous.

Besides, it's not like Ronda vs someone are the only fights that we're going to be seeing. If Tate and Zingano go out a put on a great fight and then you get good fights together for the other women you've signed up then you have a division. A dominant champion doesn't wreck a division - Jones, Silva and GSP have all looked varying degrees of invincible for the last few years but so long as there's other good fights to keep people interested it doesn't matter.

Are they immediately going to be interesting enough for Ronda vs someone to main-event PPVs? Probably not. But then I don't think Ronda vs Carmouche should be main eventing a PPV - it would be better business in my opinion to have them co-main behind a mens title match. I'd have had them on 156 right before Edgar and Aldo to be honest.

[crushed4life]

Can't find part 3...yet...

[crushed4life]

[crushed4life]

Bas Rutten talks about Ronda's footwork and striking skills
Skip ahead to 7:57

[Ronald_Frump]

Stewie I just can't understand how you think there's no relevant fights at 135 for Ronda.

.....I'll take all your points one at a time, if that's okay with everybody?

There's at least three fights I want to see for Ronda at 135.

• I want to see her fight a legit quality grappler (Davis) to see how that goes on the ground
• I want to see her fight the best wrestler in WMMA (McMann) to see if she can take down a top quality wrestler
• I want to see her fight Miesha Tate again because that was a really good fight the first time around even if it wasn't really long.

Naturally Ronda would be the favourite in all those fights, but they're all interesting because the first two pose skill-set matchups we haven't seen Ronda face yet and because Tate was able to push Ronda in their first fight.

Ronda by armbar in the first round: all three

If Davis was such an "ace" grappler, why couldn't she sub Kaufman and not win the match?

McMann has no sub skills and no KO punch-power

Tate couldn't defend the armbar first time around......why could she do so now?

The reason Cyborg is irrelevant is because there are no other fights for her other than Ronda and she can't fight in the division that exists. White's plan was a good one - contract her, get her fights in Invicta while the 135 division establishes itself, then think about it if everything goes to plan. If she won't go along with that plan then she (and / or Tito) is stupid. Throwing your toys out of the pram because you don't get Ronda in your first fight back from a drug suspension is absolutely ridiculous.

She's not irrelevant in my catchweight scenario. Forget the 135lb restriction and make the fight the fans want to see.

Besides, it's not like Ronda vs someone are the only fights that we're going to be seeing. If Tate and Zingano go out a put on a great fight and then you get good fights together for the other women you've signed up then you have a division. A dominant champion doesn't wreck a division - Jones, Silva and GSP have all looked varying degrees of invincible for the last few years but so long as there's other good fights to keep people interested it doesn't matter.

IMHO there isn't a UFC fan base which will sustain WMMA. That's where Invicta comes in......

Are they immediately going to be interesting enough for Ronda vs someone to main-event PPVs? Probably not. But then I don't think Ronda vs Carmouche should be main eventing a PPV - it would be better business in my opinion to have them co-main behind a mens title match. I'd have had them on 156 right before Edgar and Aldo to be honest.

Exactly!

[crushed4life]

Uh-Oh, Ronda's in trouble now:

[sammy_scuffles]

Ronda by armbar in the first round: all three

If Davis was such an "ace" grappler, why couldn't she sub Kaufman and not win the match?

McMann has no sub skills and no KO punch-power

Tate couldn't defend the armbar first time around......why could she do so now?

Go watch Davis vs Baszler on Invicta and see Davis legitimately winning rounds off her back against a fighter who has 14 or 15 wins by submission to her name. Then think "Has Ronda fought anyone that can do that?". The answer is no of course she hasn't. I want to see what happens when she does and I can't fathom why you don't find that question interesting too.

McMann might not be a threat to knock you out with one punch, but you can't armbar someone who's standing up (flying armbars aside). Have we seen Rousey take a top quality wrestler down? Of course not. Tate is probably the best wrestler she's fought and she's nowhere near the class that earns you a silver at the Olympics. Wrestling has typically trumped Judo as a good base for MMA in mens competition. This fight poses the question "Can McMann make Rousey fight standing up, and what happens if she can?" or alternatively "Can Rousey take down the best wrestler in WMMA?". How is that not a question you want to know the answer to? For added bonus fun, if you think Rousey can easily take down McMann (who undoubtedly has better wrestling than Cyborg) what makes you think that she can't easily take down Cyborg?

The Tate fight could easily have gone very differently. If she'd committed to attempting a choke when she had Ronda's back then this whole thread might look very different. I want to see it go around again simply because it was a really good fight.

She's not irrelevant in my catchweight scenario. Forget the 135lb restriction and make the fight the fans want to see.

You can't. The goal here isn't to make one fight that the fans* want to see. It's to make a whole division full of fights fans want to see. If Cyborg wins your catchweight fight she's an uncrowned champion with no legitimate champions and Ronda is a paper champion with no actual respect. Your whole division is literally a joke and you still have nothing you can do with Cyborg. This fight just literally cannot happen now because there are no long-term benefits of any kind. Would it make some money as a one-off? Yeah probably. Will it cost everybody involved (except for Cyborg who's pretty much screwed for lack of competition at her real weight either way) a bunch of money in the future? Absolutely.

*I also think you're overestimating the number of people who give a crap about Cyborg. She hasn't fought in ages and her fight with Carano is a long time ago now. Plus her reputation isn't exactly fantastic.

IMHO there isn't a UFC fan base which will sustain WMMA. That's where Invicta comes in......

So you're saying that you think WMMA can only survive as a stand-alone setup? I think that's nuts. If you put good fights on UFC shows then far more people are going to see them and enjoy them. There's always going to be people who don't want to watch but hey, there's a bunch of people who don't want to watch bantamweights in the mens division either. Who cares what they think?

In theory the UFC know what they're doing. There should be a women's fight every couple of months and with the fighters they've signed a lot of them are going to be fun fights. They won't be headlining unless Rousey manages to sell a lot more PPV buys than I expect her to but hey, it's a start. Invicta's your feeder-league now, work with them, help them out and properly establish WMMA as a thing, it can only grow.