who do you think is the toughest session wrestler?

[fbbgotdominated]

Mistress Kara vs Veve Lane

If there is a one to beat Veve it's either Ariel or Kara. Check how Kara would do against Veve. For me both are equally talented and Kara is bigger and stronger. So my money is on Kara. check it out.

Since kara was defeat twice by veve， your money had gone

Okay ，that is a joke

It seems that veve lane is the toughest grappler in US.

However，who do you think is the toughest wrestler in the world.

Raquel is good but not good enough ：



I think Kathy （remains unbeaten in her whole career ） is the toughest one who can easily choke veve lane out

[SteveZ]

I've no idea who Kathy Clifford is. I expect VeVe would have too much for her anyway.

[DiabloNYC]

Kathy Gifford (and also Raquel) retired from the scene a little while ago, so I don't think VeVe and Kathy will ever fight.

[scissoringlover]

ziggy is far strong from all wrestlers and veve is the most skilled and can make a good match with ziggy

[SteveZ]

fbbgotdominated - no I hadn't heard of Kathy as I said. Raquel fought VeVe before VeVe piled on muscle and upped her skill level so, if Raquel were still wrestling I think VeVe would have too much for her now.

[Pauly1982]

Raquel does still fight (just doesn't session) and would destroy Veve and anyone else on the scene

[Ronald_Frump]

Raquel does still fight (just doesn't session) and would destroy Veve and anyone else on the scene

Maybe on the session scene.....

[SteveZ]

Let's hope she tries her luck, as so far it seems she shied away from a rematch with VeVe.

[Pauly1982]

People think veve has got better over the last couple of years?? you think Raquel didn't? When they fought Veve was a purple belt in BJJ,Raquel was a white belt at the time

The difference is 25 years of grappling, bodybuilding, powerlifting and boxing...And overall fight experience.

Also, to answer the question of being only ranked in session world? She holds World and North American titles in various grappling and martial arts disciplines.

There's a reason all of the top girls! Pro fighters or not, that session got there buts handed to them when they fought Raquel, pound for pound, different league.

She went to New York twice to meet Veve and veve pulled out of the matches last minute due to unforeseen circumstances.

[DiabloNYC]

People think veve has got better over the last couple of years?? you think Raquel didn't? When they fought Veve was a purple belt in BJJ,Raquel was a white belt at the time

The difference is 25 years of grappling, bodybuilding, powerlifting and boxing...And overall fight experience.

Also, to answer the question of being only ranked in session world? She holds World and North American titles in various grappling and martial arts disciplines.

There's a reason all of the top girls! Pro fighters or not, that session got there buts handed to them when they fought Raquel, pound for pound, different league.

She went to New York twice to meet Veve and veve pulled out of the matches last minute due to unforeseen circumstances.

Hey there. If you are who I think you are, we did discuss this specific matter already earlier this year elsewhere on the web.  Interesting how this keeps causing such discussion.

When VeVe had her match with Raquel in February 2011, VeVe had only been training in wrestling/grappling for approximately 3.5 years.  She had only just been promoted to jiujitsu purple belt in October 2010 (students can get to that level "relatively" quickly, though they tend to stay there for a long time) and she had no experience in pin-style wrestling at that time.  As I understand it, and as you mention, Raquel had over a decade (or two? you mention 25 years) of wrestling/grappling experience.  I know you like to mention this purple belt thing a lot, but years training carries more weight than a belt color which may mark how long a student attended a particular school.

Also, I believe you've mention this before about Raquel coming to New York specifically for a rematch.  She did not come specifically for video matches - she came on session tours.  This was all within less than 6 months of the original match.  [also, as I had mentioned previously elsewhere: "Referencing e-mail records, I am aware of only two discussions about setting up a rematch: one for May 2011 and one for July 2011. For the May attempt, the ladies could not work out a date (one needed May 5, the other needed May 8 ). For the July attempt, VeVe's flight back to NYC from travelling was delayed.") ]

But, seriously, Raquel is retired from this scene and has moved on with her life.  The two ladies were on friendly terms and have known each other outside of the scene.  Many experience-level mismatches take place all across the wrestling industry, and that's perfectly okay (and often desirable!).  School of hard knocks is par for the course.  But people grow, learn, change.   And life goes on.

[DiabloNYC]

By the way, I don't see Toned Tommi on the poll.  She definitely has chops in the toughness category!  She is definitely a trooper, and she's got the "rough and tough" attitude and style.  How about a write-in for Tommi?

[Matey]

Added Toned Tommi to the poll and ability for those who voted already to change their vote should they want to

[Shogun99]

People think veve has got better over the last couple of years?? you think Raquel didn't? When they fought Veve was a purple belt in BJJ,Raquel was a white belt at the time

The difference is 25 years of grappling, bodybuilding, powerlifting and boxing...And overall fight experience.

Also, to answer the question of being only ranked in session world? She holds World and North American titles in various grappling and martial arts disciplines.

There's a reason all of the top girls! Pro fighters or not, that session got there buts handed to them when they fought Raquel, pound for pound, different league.

She went to New York twice to meet Veve and veve pulled out of the matches last minute due to unforeseen circumstances.

Hey there. If you are who I think you are, we did discuss this specific matter already earlier this year elsewhere on the web.  Interesting how this keeps causing such discussion.

When VeVe had her match with Raquel in February 2011, VeVe had only been training in wrestling/grappling for approximately 3.5 years.  She had only just been promoted to jiujitsu purple belt in October 2010 (students can get to that level "relatively" quickly, though they tend to stay there for a long time) and she had no experience in pin-style wrestling at that time.  As I understand it, and as you mention, Raquel had over a decade (or two? you mention 25 years) of wrestling/grappling experience.  I know you like to mention this purple belt thing a lot, but years training carries more weight than a belt color which may mark how long a student attended a particular school.

Also, I believe you've mention this before about Raquel coming to New York specifically for a rematch.  She did not come specifically for video matches - she came on session tours.  This was all within less than 6 months of the original match.  [also, as I had mentioned previously elsewhere: "Referencing e-mail records, I am aware of only two discussions about setting up a rematch: one for May 2011 and one for July 2011. For the May attempt, the ladies could not work out a date (one needed May 5, the other needed May 8 ). For the July attempt, VeVe's flight back to NYC from travelling was delayed.") ]

But, seriously, Raquel is retired from this scene and has moved on with her life.  The two ladies were on friendly terms and have known each other outside of the scene.  Many experience-level mismatches take place all across the wrestling industry, and that's perfectly okay (and often desirable!).  School of hard knocks is par for the course.  But people grow, learn, change.   And life goes on.

Dominique Danger and Helen Von Mott are still a step ahead Veve and Raquel. Remember Raquel flat out refuses to have matches where all BJJ holds are allowed, one of the reasons she is so dominant is that her stipulations prevent the BJJ girls from using their full arsenal. That's one of the reasons she beat Veve in 2011. In spite of this, Helen defeated Raquel under these modified rules in 2011. The result was only 1-0, but Helen would have won by a larger margin if she could have used her full arsenal.

Helen and Veve were both defeated by Dominique Danger under full BJJ rules where all submissions were allowed. Danger is hands down the number one girl. She is 215 lbs solid muscle on top of her BJJ credentials. If Raquel couldn't beat Helen under her modifield rules, no way she beats Dominique. Helen already beat Raquel and VeVe would probably beat her too if she could use her full arsenal.

[Mugwump]

I think Tommi is severely underrated in this poll, as she's a semi-pro MMA in the minor leagues. She claims that she will never let herself be submitted in a fetish match by anyone, man or woman. That kind of determination plus skill is not to be underestimated, as she'll fight to the bitter end to either get a submission or leave it at a draw.

[crushed4life]

Since Tommi was added to the poll 3 1/2 mos. into it's now 7 month existence, I can understand why she's so underrated. Even tho voters can change their vote, they probably wouldn't bother. If I had to put money on the toughest, it would have to go on Tommi. She tweeted a few mos. ago that she thought she could take any of the ultimate surrender girls. That would include Ariel and Kara. The one wild card would be the now brown belted Veve in a pure grappling match (the word "toughest" can mean different things to different people - do they mean in a street fight? or a sanctioned bjj match? or an mma match?)....and didn't Tommi & Veve wrestle to a draw in a previous video?