The real Amazons

[Zissou35]

Have people here read about the real Amazons, both the Greek versions and the South American versions? I personally like the South American ones better/find them more interesting because they were said to be white skinned and blond, strong and beautiful... in South America. I'm fascinated by hidden history and white american indians, on top of that, they were Amazons!

Greek Amazons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazons

South American Amazons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Amazonian_Indians

[Ronald_Frump]

Interesting articles,  Zissou35........

[wrespet]

Have people here read about the real Amazons, both the Greek versions and the South American versions? I personally like the South American ones better/find them more interesting because they were said to be white skinned and blond, strong and beautiful... in South America. I'm fascinated by hidden history and white american indians, on top of that, they were Amazons!

Greek Amazons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazons

South American Amazons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Amazonian_Indians

There is not much abt south american amazons in that article. It doesn't even mention abt their fighting or any activity. I prefer Greek Amazons because they were more active, recognized and dominant in the society. That taking men as slave for sex and their visit to the visited the Gargareans are so cool.

[Zissou35]

Those articles are just an introduction, I can't remember where there were better articles, but I do remember reading about the SA Amazons doing similar things as the Greek ones, taking slaves, using them for sex only then killing them or letting them go.

There was one time when they fought some Spanish explorers where they had men fight behind them (the women were at the front line). If the men tried to run away, the women would get them and beat them to death.

http://www.sofadasala.com/pesquisa/theamazons001.htm

...[the indigenous, the men]... They are the subjects and tributaries of the Amazon. Realizing our arrival, they ran to ask help to the women-warriors. They came in a small group. It was ten or twelve of them. We saw them. (They confronted us). In front of everyone them (the men) as captains ... fought bravely. (Indigenous, men who fled of us) ... They all were killed by beating with with big wood sticks (the sticks are called 'bordunas').

These women have very light skin. Are of tall stature, long hair arranged in braids around the head. They have a strong physique, well trained. They don't use clothes, living naked and cover only the genitals (in terms of the Friar, 'the shames'). They are skilled with their bows and arrows and one of this women worth ten men.

It all depends on how much you want to follow up on it. I'm fascinated by hidden/true history, white indians and subjects like that.

[Ronald_Frump]

These women have very light skin. Are of tall stature, long hair arranged in braids around the head. They have a strong physique, well trained. They don't use clothes, living naked and cover only the genitals (in terms of the Friar, 'the shames'). They are skilled with their bows and arrows and one of this women worth ten men.

It all depends on how much you want to follow up on it. I'm fascinated by hidden/true history, white indians and subjects like that.

Well it ties in with the classical appearance of Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered serpent (God/deity).

"It is only fair to point out that there are friezes of Kulkulcan, the Mayan incarnation of Quetzalcoatl, which clearly depict a Caucasian-featured, long-faced person with a long straight nose and a long, pointed beard. Archaeologists have even nicknamed this figure "Uncle Sam", for the very real resemblance to the American patriotic symbol."

re. http://mexonline.com/amigonews/feature-madonna-serpent.htm

Some believe that South American pyramid construction had some connection to Egypt. Did both have roots in a previous Atlantean culture? Did the arrival of Cortez awaken an ancient memory of a previous visitation by white-skinned benefactors, imparting wisdom and superior technical knowledge? Could these "Gods" have then gone on to inter-breed with the local population, thereby altering the genetic/racial mix amongst some of these tribes?

[sheehan333]

These women have very light skin. Are of tall stature, long hair arranged in braids around the head. They have a strong physique, well trained. They don't use clothes, living naked and cover only the genitals (in terms of the Friar, 'the shames'). They are skilled with their bows and arrows and one of this women worth ten men.

It all depends on how much you want to follow up on it. I'm fascinated by hidden/true history, white indians and subjects like that.

Well it ties in with the classical appearance of Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered serpent (God/deity).

"It is only fair to point out that there are friezes of Kulkulcan, the Mayan incarnation of Quetzalcoatl, which clearly depict a Caucasian-featured, long-faced person with a long straight nose and a long, pointed beard. Archaeologists have even nicknamed this figure "Uncle Sam", for the very real resemblance to the American patriotic symbol."

re. http://mexonline.com/amigonews/feature-madonna-serpent.htm

Some believe that South American pyramid construction had some connection to Egypt. Did both have roots in a previous Atlantean culture? Did the arrival of Cortez awaken an ancient memory of a previous visitation by white-skinned benefactors, imparting wisdom and superior technical knowledge? Could these "Gods" have then gone on to inter-breed with the local population, thereby altering the genetic/racial mix amongst some of these tribes?

I do not know much about South american history and civilisation but I dont think Atlantis or Europe had anything to do with pyramids. The Indian, Egyptian and Chinese civilisation are actually older then the European civilisation. The most logical answer to the pyramid relation is that the triangle is the most stable structure in Architecture and that being discovered had been used extensively in all 3 civilisations in ancient times to build mega structures. Most probably the South Americans also were privy to this knowledge.

Now about white amazons, were these people subsequently discovered anytime later if not then it might well be the case that they were wearing paints and were labelled white skins as the natives of britain were labelled blue skins by the early roman invaders.

Again historian William Dalrymple writes about Europeans between 15th-18th Century who had come to India and had became completely native following even the religious customs (they could not convert to Hinduism offcourse as the religion does not have a conversion ritual, you can only be born a Hindu) and was indistinguishable from the locals other then the skin colour. His research and books deals with such people and families who had became alien (in language, culture and habits) to their own people. Now I hope it was not the same case with these explorers who were may be seeing some early settlers. What I write is just a possibility a phenomenon witnessed elsewhere and not a theory, as I know almost nothing about South American history and Civilisation.

[sheehan333]

I have always fantasised about Amazons, the concepts of a tribe of female warriors had fascinated me. But Although there are instances of female warriors in history the mind refuses to believe that it is possible for females to enter battle as equal to men (No modern female inclusion in army does not count as today wars are not about brawn  but technology) In a battle between a spear or swordswoman and a swordsman or speasrman the former will have very little chance. It is the physical disparity between men and women which makes the existence of Amazons a Myth to me after all how many women would be strong enough to battle even an average man may be one in thousand.

But some years back I saw a documentary where a female researcher searches for the existence of Amazon tribes based on the graves of women who were buried with their weapons. Her search takes her to the steppes of Central Asia where there are some tribes who are nomadic and matriarchal in nature. Here she matches the DNA from the graves and the DNA of the women of these tribes which matches. Her conclusion was that may be a race of independent warrior women did exist and later being pushed from their original territories had entered and intermingled with the firece and independent tribes of the Steppes. My own minor theory on this integration is that the tribes in the steppes generally worshiped nature in these kind of religious practice equal importance is placed on the female and male unlike organised religions where the male is supreme and the female is secondary. This may have facilitated the integration.

But it still did not answer my original question how could a race of warrior females exist in an ancient world where muscle power was supreme. The answer came to me when I read about the most menacing armies that the world has ever known which came out from the steppes of central Asia, the Mongols. The Mongols had conquered almost the whole of the known world by the power of the bow. They rarely got in to hand and to hand fight which was the norm those days and rather kept away from their enemies by way of their superior horses and harass them with their superior bows which could shoot farther then any other bows in the medieval world. For almost two hundred years these armies remained undefeated crushing the islamic empire, the european crusaders, chinese empire and even taming the tumultous Afghan and entering Northern India. Their battle tactics would be precursor to Hitlers Blitzkreig and American Shock and Awe, emulated by generals like Rommell.

Now is there a chance that the Amazon tribe did exist and the weapon of their choice was the bow rather then heavy swords, axes, maces or spears. Because the Mongol armies were rumoured to contain women dressed as men and they could shoot as well as men. Horse riding and using bows were skills imparted to both sexes in their childhood among Mongols. There is a famous instance when the attack of the Shah of the Khwareizm on the mongol camp was repulsed by the women with their bows as their main army was drawn into battle by the Shah's forces (Chengiz Khans sister actually died in this attack and he pursued the Shah to his death because of this). History offcourse tells us a about Khutlun, Chengiz Khans Great Grand daughter who was the best warrior in her kingdom an expert rider and bow women. But her fame was being an undefeated wrestler through her lifetime.

May be these battle tactics were what the amazons followed and the pushed and pursued Amazons nation ultimately absorbed itself in a more gender neutral lifestyle of the steppes and the Amazon genes were responsible for the rise of  khutlun's among the mongols.

But this begs the question if Mongols  were so successful why would there be so little refrence of the Amazons since the classical period by poets like Homer. How and why did the Amazon nation disintegrate then. My simple guess would be that the amazons did not posses the hardy horses of the steppes that was one of the two ingredients of mongol conquest. They might have been able to inflict much damage on their opposing forces but might have been defeated when their opponents caught up with them and forced them into hand to hand combat. (May be thats why all their battles has been described as terrible)

So thats my Amazon theory and whether Amazons were a part of history or Myth that I leave to more learned people then myself.

P.S. Which weapon was commonly found in the graves of these warrior women ? No prizes for guessing : Arrowheads

[sheehan333]

May be they were the real Amazons

http://fscclub.com/vidy/small-huka-e.shtml